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Cheers doc, that’s what I was looking for; some balance.
I’ve no idea about macs other than what I hear from my cuz so need to get feedback from others.
Going for a top end i7 with wizzbang gfx and a decent monitor will cost how much if I go the pc route?
As I say i’m not looking for this to turn into a mac love in but until now only maniac has given me decent feedback!
Well, i spent about a grand a few months ago – SSD, I7 950 processor (water cooled) GTX 470 and the usual extras. Run kaspersky on it and keep your firewall on… low risk of a viral failure I hope. Simple precautions like mirroring your drive to an external after installing it in case of catastrophe makes re installation less of a pain.
I am happy with my 24″ monitor – but the machine could easily handle a bigger one if you really want the 27″
i still reckon PC specialist are a good deal – but plenty of other similar companies out there.
I was waiting for someone to bite… 😀
Doc, answer me this… why does pretty much every professional editing house, design agency, recording studio, and media agency use apple products?
Is it because they are pretty? nope.
It is because the data has relative value over and above that of “man hours”. The most important single issue in any creative process is workflow, and any disruption of said workflow costs time, and ultimately money. Apple products are simply better supported by a single company (the manufacturer), and more reliable (due to a single design, rather than a box of mixed components).
The final Cut debate is a mute point as CS5 is cross platform, however, as you brought up the subject – The BBC has very little (compared to other broadcasters) sub contracted operators. The last time we did work for them their submission guideline document read like “war and peace”, and as such can choose freely whichever product they desire to edit in (To correct you however, the last system the BBC used was mainly Avid with a number of FCP suits) They, unlike other broadcasters are under public scrutiny regarding production costs (for another debate) However, the hardware is either Apple or PC depending on which suite you are in, and as such a cross platform product is much more beneficial for a large national broadcaster. The main benefit to Premier Pro I will concede is the excellent work flow efficiency of the Adobe suite and I feel FCP could do with an interface update. However, have a quick look at the various forums relating to PC users running various Adobe suites, and in particular Premier Pro, not exactly a glowing endorsement for the PC platform. I personally use FCP because that is what I trained in, and I can achieve the same results as I could in any other suite. However, we use pretty much every Adobe product available for creative media, without any problems. I even use After Effects on the earlier mentioned 8 year old Mac Pro.
I doubt Egg is looking to do any highly intensive video editing however, on that point a copy of Premier Pro 5 currently retails at £810, Final Cut Studio retails at £834… however, for a non professional user you can buy Final Cut Express at £135 or use the excellent and easy to use imovie which is bundled with the ilife suite for Free!! (I am sure there are other freeware options available for the PC, but I seriously doubt they are anywhere near imovie for results. I spend every day and earn every penny I earn from the use of the types of applications discussed, and the ilife suite is bloody brilliant for any non-serious user)“Photoshopping” – Using the 3D functionality now incorporated since CS4 (I think)? no? then don’t worry about the spec of the GFX card in relation to photographic manipulation. Yes? well, I use a number of pure 3D modeling software suits with my current machines with no problem. My next door neighbour is a Professor of computer sciences at Napier in Edinburgh specialising in 3D, and uses Apple products exclusively. Never asked him why… hmmmm 😉
To respond to your comments on the subject of hardware..
Read my previous post regarding this… It’s pretty tiresome repeating myself. As I have used both PC and Apple machines extensively, I can speak with a certain authority regarding the efficiency of the OS with regard to hardware. No matter what you buy, It will become obsolete… But I would not call a Sandybridge processor or even an i7 processor “shit” as Doc states. However,I’ll agree with Doc on this point – if you are building a gaming machine get a box and fill it with components of your choice, you’ll have unlimited scope to upgrade etc… I never would dispute that.
Regarding BF3 – How can you possibly comment on the ability for a machine (you have never used) to run a game (that is not even released)? I hope your wrong, if your not, fair point.Viruses…
C’mon Doc… is that the best you could come up with.. a seriously skewed piece of statistical nonsense. Ok, here is my response.
I could like you to hundreds of counter argument pieces written by so called tech Journo’s, but the fact remains. I have (and none of my other Apple products at home or work) have ever crashed, been infected, or otherwise (apart from one hardware problem which was solved out of warranty) had any issues what-so-ever. Remember the XDC site hack last week? my Mac would not even let me near the site.. now I am not saying Paddy’s problems are related but all I know is I have never had to re-install my OS in 10 years of using Apple products.. which PC user can say the same?
Marketing & Fluff… Yes, your right. The marketing is great, and yes the fluff is certainly there.. but why not? Is it a crime that the last run of Microsoft adverts were produced with FCP? 😆
In Summary…
I personally don’t care if a million or a billion folks use Apple products or not, because I have made a personal and professional choice. For some people PC’s would not get a foot in the door, however, I have to confess, I may look at buying a PC purely for gaming (reasons stated above). What irk’s me about this long and often run debate is the vast majority of Apple users have used PC’s at sometimes in the past, yet the reverse is rarely true. Yet, the Apple bashing is based on nothing more than the rubbish written on the net and unqualified opinions … Bottom line is, Try both, if you choose the PC then its the right thing for you, and if you like the Apple, then as before it will be apparent that its best for your needs. (you’ll be at least 10% gay’er, but also 15% more smug)
Peace. 😀
Run kaspersky on it and keep your firewall on… low risk of a viral failure I hope. Simple precautions like mirroring your drive to an external after installing it in case of catastrophe makes re installation less of a pain
Sorry…. And you want to argue with me on this subject?
@=xdc=maniac wrote:
Run kaspersky on it and keep your firewall on… low risk of a viral failure I hope. Simple precautions like mirroring your drive to an external after installing it in case of catastrophe makes re installation less of a pain
Sorry…. And you want to argue with me on this subject?
LoL just pointing out a few precautions that make using PC’s a safer environment. I can honestly say that I have not had a virus on any of my various computers since ohhhh… i think it was 2002 (though to be fair I have had other issue to deal with over the years – NOT virus related mind.)
As for your other bits.. i dont think asking a load of security experts for their opinion is ‘skewed statistical nonsense’ There are no statistics there at all in fact.. and it showed quite a balanced opinion overall. (I am discounting the survey mentioned at the start as it is pretty meaningless.)
Why do most creative types use macs? Well… in my experice airy fairy creative types are not the most analytical sensible people when it comes to maiking hardware buying decisions. 😀 “Ooooo look at the lovely thin computer thing that is so nice and shiny!” they say as they flounce around in a style over substance ecstasy. 😈
As for my game prediction – I think I can make a fair guess… the Mac still uses normal PC components… and he will be playing games in a windows environment… so why can’t I make a judgement based on experience? Sure his mac will meet the minimum specs, but will it play BF3 as well as my PC which has a better processor and GFX card and is overclocked / watercooled? Or even close? How can it possibly? Unless it has magic apple pixie dust inside it too?
My point re CS5 is valid too don’t you think? Say he does want to use CS5…. which he CAN use in OSX…. will that OSX magic turn his I3 processor and half gig memory GFX card into something special? Which machine would you bet on to render an after effects timeline quicker?
If only your Tank driving and mine spotting was as good as your debating skills…
Ok..
As for your other bits.. i dont think asking a load of security experts for their opinion is ‘skewed statistical nonsense’ There are no statistics there at all in fact.. and it showed quite a balanced opinion overall. (I am discounting the survey mentioned at the start as it is pretty meaningless.)
I could present similar arguments to the contrary. You know this, I know this. Yet you still feel the need to protect your machine against “catastrophe”? It’s simply down to the people who write viruses, and spy ware. Apple has roughly 10% of the desktop market and a little over 12% of the laptop market, and as such the net can be spread over a larger proportion of PC users. However, as the pre-installed software on a mac is written by Apple, including the security applications written into Safari, I actually never know it’s running but’s.. blah blah ZZZzzzzZZZZZ blah (fill in with pro-apple propaganda).. the user experience i.e me and my co-workers in the industry are a testament to that fact.
Why do most creative types use macs? Well… in my experice airy fairy creative types are not the most analytical sensible people when it comes to maiking hardware buying decisions. “Ooooo look at the lovely thin computer thing that is so nice and shiny!” they say as they flounce around in a style over substance ecstasy.
Thats a very wide sweeping generalisation…. I am extremely analytical person. However, you may have a point that creatives like form and design, but never at the cost of a contract or their jobs. If a PC was more reliable, or easier or just plain better I would take a beige box over a “shiny aluminium thin thing” each and every day. My first mac was actually an old G3 power mac, which looked identical to an old typical PC.
Are all GP’s tweed wearing, out-of touch, dorks with bad hand writing? NO, of course not.
As for my game prediction – I think I can make a fair guess… the Mac still uses normal PC components… and he will be playing games in a windows environment… so why can’t I make a judgement based on experience? Sure his mac will meet the minimum specs, but will it play BF3 as well as my PC which has a better processor and GFX card and is overclocked / watercooled? Or even close? How can it possibly? Unless it has magic apple pixie dust inside it too?
No, not even a little bit of “apple dust”. A very efficient OS with good “plumbing”. I can’t speak for Windows 7, but compared to Vista, OSX maximises every aspect of the hardware available. I heard you had to pay extra for the 64bit version of Windows? hmmm.. However, I conceded that point earlier regarding gaming. Egg has quite clearly stated this machine is not for gaming, and my opinion is that should he wish to dabble, then the systems he is looking at will be adequate.
My point re CS5 is valid too don’t you think? Say he does want to use CS5…. which he CAN use in OSX…. will that OSX magic turn his I3 processor and half gig memory GFX card into something special? Which machine would you bet on to render an after effects timeline quicker?
Hang on. He said PHOTOSHOP and a bit of video editing. And are you telling me that an i3 processor is not adequate for general PS duties?.. I will admit rendering HD video effects and AE (generally) are intensive, but only in todays world when handling multi-layerd comps, or truly complex 3D models. I can quite happily work on commercial projects on my Dual-core 3.0ghz without frustration or problems. Ok, in a perfect situation I would personally have at home a Mac Pro running 12 cores, 32gb RAM, 2 2gb gfx cards.. and 2 30″ apple cinema screens… but we’re talking about pros and cons.. I have never said Apple was the cheaper option, but I feel its a better one, albeit with a premium to pay.
You can spend £15k on a car and go fast or £75k and buy a porsche and do it in style (shit, just blown my function over form argument there 😆 )
wow!! Good to see the mac v pc debate is still alive and kicking 😉
Cheers for the entertain…..errr, input gents, keep it coming!! 😉
lol, nice 1.
i need a bottle!
My laptop has just spent 6 hours ripping a DVD only to wake up this morning and find that it’s totally unwatchable.
I tried 2 ways: firstly i copied and pasted just the vob files then used handbrake to rip them; end result was it was unwatchable. So i used handbrake to rip directly from the DVD which took about 6 hours! Again unwatchable.
The laptop is only about 4 years old. Originally it had vista on it but it was a pain in the arse. It got to the point it wouldn’t even recognise the DVD drive! I installed XP on to it and it now plays DVDs and seems ok but now i find it can’t rip them.
Why is it my cousins macbook air can do all this with no slow down of other apps, quaility is consistent and it’s only about a year younger than my laptop?
I’ve loved having pc’s but the thought of paying out a lump of cash on one only to have it slow down on me after a year of use is putting me off! I had a BSOD about 4 days after installing XP ffs!
As i’ve said i’m not making my mind up now but if nothing else i’m tempted by the mac if only to try out a different OS and experience myself the “joys” of using an iMac.
Gotta say I spent most of my pc life hating Apple’s but I actually had a 27in IMAC for a couple of months at work and all I can say is I was very sorry to see it go!!!. If I could afford one I would buy one straightaway.
I’ve been reading a fair bit on them recently and they seem good. I’ve watched vids on youtube of peeps playing BFBC2 on their 27″ screens at full res and all maxed out with no visible slow down.
If i do get one i’ll wait for the update that is about due on them, hopefully the gfx card will get an upgrade.
ok, thought i would update here.
I’m still thinking of buying a mac, the question is which one.
Until about an hour ago i was going to go for a base mac mini, hook it into my 19″ monitor and use it as my main computer until next year when i was considering getting an imac and then use my mac mini as HTPC – connected into my 46″ TV as a second pc and media hub……would give the missus her own pc on the TV etc.
Having just read the minimum specs for BF3:
I’m now wondering if i were to invest a little more and get the base 21.5″ model imac, would it play the game ok?
2.5GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM – 2x2GB
500GB Serial ATA Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB GDDR5I’m not looking to get ultra settings on the gfx, i know i would need a top end gfx card with 1Gb ram minimum but would the imac specs give me decent gaming at the monitors native resolution or would i need to play in a window at 1280×1024 or summat?
cheers guys.
It’ll play fine. Bootcamp your system, and keep the Windows end as lean as you can. All mine has installed is Steam and Firefox (to download drivers etc.) Run SMC Fan Control from the OSX side, and your ofski. Can be a bit of a pain at first getting all the drivers together. Oh! and get a wired keyboard and a decent mouse, the Apple one’s are no use for gaming. You’ll hate having to look and operate the ugly clunky Windows 7 OS after using OSX for a while, but it’s only for gaming.
just on the stat front… while apple may well have 10% of the US market … world wide you are looking at about 3-5%
its the jeering fucking sycophants that forever made me a pc till I die type .. i could never associate myself with that bloody logo.. i dont care if it also wipes my arse while photoshopping
lmao Andy.
Decided to give the mac mini a try in the end. Gives me a chance to try out the whole apple thing and then next year if i want to upgrade i can either move back to a high spec PC or else get an imac if i prefer that way of things. Either way i’ll end up with a half decent HTPC which i can use on my TV as a 2nd pc and media streaming thingie.
😀
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