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Blimey, this is getting serious!
I’m not a fan of “jail is porridge, water, and chain-gangs”. Making jail hard time certainly does zero in terms of rehab. If you take Turks point that a large number of criminals actually don’t reoffend (or at least, don’t get caught), then the system must be doing something right for some people. You can’t lose that.
Jail is not easy as it is – face it, your basic liberty is taken away. All the other flog’em advocates are after is revenge. That’s not rehab.
The critical bit is in not making release too easy – somehow you simply have to stop the people who have a history of taking or threatening to take life, or who exploit innocent for their own gratification.
I am against the death penalty myself for the same reasons as the Doc pointed out .
I do feel that those who have been sentenced should serve the whole of their sentence and not get released early for good behaviour and the like.
However with regard to less serious crimes than murder I do feel that the lack of space in prisons is often the reasons shorter senteces are handed out and I would like to see more prisons built to hold criminals for the sentences they are handed .
Many criminals will offend again and while they are serving their prison term they are unable to comit these crimes against those on the outside.
@Captain_Chronic wrote:
I am against the death penalty myself for the same reasons as the Doc pointed out .
I do feel that those who have been sentenced should serve the whole of their sentence and not get released early for good behaviour and the like.
However with regard to less serious crimes than murder I do feel that the lack of space in prisons is often the reasons shorter senteces are handed out and I would like to see more prisons built to hold criminals for the sentences they are handed .
Many criminals will offend again and while they are serving their prison term they are unable to comit these crimes against those on the outside.
Yeah – we are just chucking them out of prisone arent we? Oh… wait… we actually have more people in prison per capita than ANY other country in Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn1page1.stm
😛
What do you want us to do? Start locking them up in solitary confinement for 30 years like the states? 1 in 140 US ‘citizens’ is in jail…. I hear its pretty safe to walk the streets there though
😉It would be interesting to get Dot Cotton over from multiplayers in to this discussion, as he is a prison guard (I think)… Im just curious of what his point of view would be.
And messy, on the BBC website it siad that the crime was in revenge for a previous gang type attack… not that thats an excuse or anything, just thought I would enlighten you all…
Personally I think money should be put in to stopping gangland culture, rather than ways to scare people out of committing crimes. As you say, these people are sick, and need help… rather stop the cause of the problem than deal with the after effects. There must be a reason why people behave like this – so in my opinion, there must be a way to reduce the problem.
I’m with Doc on this, there is NO justification for the death penalty given the chance of unsafe convictions, the first priority should not be to punish people but to get them off the streets and rehabilitate them. Why? because prison should no longer be a place for crimnality to fester and grow as it has been in the past, it should be a way of enforcing a regimen and a discipline that reforms and improves criminals.
Yes I know there are people who are serious and psychological offenders who commit crimes because they know no better, and they do deserve to do time, but we are failing them and society if we beleive that strict discipline is what is needed. Look at it this way, take an ordinary criminal, maybe the odd burglary, nothing to vicious, send them to prison and enforce a strict discipline on them and they will resent it, but it gives a focus of their anger to be the “system”, giving them an excuse not to reform. However, enforce a routine and let them be awrded incentives and so forth and they might (or at least are more likely to) refom. It’s the carrot and the stick approach.
It has to be said that the initial posts in this thread are worryingly indicative of a nation that has been gripped by tabloid sensationalism, and it is no wonder that the BNP are going to get more support than ever at this election, and that is more than worrying, please for the love of God, don’t vote BNP.
Oh but I DO agree with corporal punishment for children, or at least I beleive that parents should be allowed to smack their child if necessary. And bring back National Service, a good beasting is good for the soul.
Yeah – we are just chucking them out of prisone arent we? Oh… wait… we actually have more people in prison per capita than ANY other country in Europe.
I dont dispute that doc but we could probably free up some space in these prisons if we stopped locking up people because they haven’t paid their council tax or TV licence! It seems that if a crime involves taking money from the Goverment then its a free for all! Why is someone like Ronnie biggs locked up in a high security prison when people who commited far more serious crimes are banged up in a lower category prison ? it doesn’t make sense! I don’t condone what Biggs done, he committed a crime, done a runner and stuck 2 fingers up to the police/goverment here and he deserves to do time but i would bet he will probably spend longer inside if he lives than someone who’s knocked an old lady over the head or raped a young girl!
It just ain’t right!!
Ok, lets not have a death sentence…well no chance of that anyhow, this wonderful goverment we have made sure we can never vote on that, but at least have some serious reforms with regards sentencing and time served.
All we seem to be getting is the de-criminalisation of crimes!! case in point, someone goes out, gets drunk and then damages a vehicle by breaking a window or pulling off its wing mirror……..that would have been classed as drunk and disorderly and possibly something like damage with intent, now its just a penalty charge notice, £50 fine and off you go! That now pushes the crime committed above into the same catagory as parking on a yellow line or driving down a bus lane…no wonder crime figures show a decrease in crimes committed where in effect its just a neat little trick with figures and statistics.I’m sure there is many good stories of guys gone bad, do stir come out and make a real contribution to society, John Mcvicar is a possible example but that doesn’t remove the fact that MURDERERS and PAEDOPHILES are being released into society and sometimes re-offending……ok, you can argue they’ve done their time and are “rehabillitated”, personally i’d sleep better at night knowing that decent society is being given every chance by keeping that person in jail……he’s a different person to what he was 20 years ago! .good! be a role model for any young offenders who get thrown in for their first petty offence, perhaps then they may make a contribution to society by paying their dues…..teach the young offenders that the path they have chosen can only lead them one way……….
I’m off to finish the garden, be back to see the flame war hot up shortly…… 😉
errr, who mentioned anything about the BNP ?
People have their views and i suspect they have the intelligence to form those views without being influenced by “political parties” like the BNP or sensationalist headlines in a redtop newspaper.
I consider myself intelligent enough to form an opinion on what i consider to be an important topic without having to be told what my opinion should be by the Daily Mail or some numpty political party.
The fact that the BNP is gaining popularity should be of more concern; it should hi-light what is inherently wrong with our current parties and their manifesto’s, a point to consider is the New conservative leader, David Cameron. “vote Blue, go Green” is the current slogan with the tory party yet David Cameron cycles to work but has a car following him with all his documents; i understand he was given the option of buying a toyota prius but instead opted for a lexus! Its again a case of do as i say, not as i do! It’s ok for the Home secretary to fuck up with all these released prisoners, he can keep his job and sweep it under the carpet yet if you or i make a cock-up at work, we pay the price.
The BNP are cashing in on the incompetence of the political parties to really be in tune with how people are feeling………its not an ideal situation to be in but with the current goverment doing what they like and the opposition so far removed from reality its no wonder they could possibly gain a foothold! like yourself wolf, i really hope not!.errr, who mentioned anything about the BNP ?
People have their views and i suspect they have the intelligence to form those views without being influenced by “political parties” like the BNP or sensationalist headlines in a redtop newspaper.
I mentioned them as the initial postings on this thread highlight the growing influence of the Tabloids whol promote xenophobia and extreme punishments as highlighted by this thread and this led me to the conclusion that it is the tabloids fault that the BNP is gaining popularity.
AS for David Cameron it is no help to sla him off for cycling to work as a public figure, he has at least put the cycling to work in the public domain, regardless of whether he has a car following (a car hat he would be using were he not cycling anyway, so at a cost of no extra emmisions he has highlighted that everyone, no matter how busy or important, can find the time and pleasure, of cycling to work, it is a step in the right direction and a good use of a public profile.
Everyone is always quick to criticise, but slow to consider all the aspects.
This should be in the argument forum, like the other death penalty threads were. I’m of the opinion that you should only be pro-death penalty if you don’t mind being wrongfully convicted and killed by the state yourself as would inevitably happen to certain people (Birmingham six, Guildford four, etc.). The police are far from infallible, neither is the court system, and giving them the power to murder will degrade society, not enhance it.
Sorry for bringing up the same old arguments, but they are powerful ones.
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